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Random thought on old coffee

 
 
 
 

We are told time and again that fresh coffee is what you need to get good results and anything less is pretty much unacceptable. This line of thinking was really prevelant in a recent discussion that i read and was kind of part of at a coffee forum talking about the tastes and prices of Illy and Lavazza. The basic thought behind it was that those Italian coffees that have been sitting in a tin can or bag for a couple months were not that bad according to some posters, while other strongly disagreed.

This got me to thinking about packaged coffee of the kind of Illy and Lavazza. These coffees are packed well, sealed, nitrogen flushed to remove all oxygen that causes a coffee to go stale. So what is the real difference with this and someone freezing their coffee?

People often site coffee that you get at the grocery store months after being roasted tasting awful, but of course that coffee is going to taste awful even a few days post roast it taste awful so whether or not the coffee is stale it's not going to matter.

I just don't think people have gone to some the lengths they have with how a nitrogen flushed sealed coffee tastes like have been with freezing. A lot of this has to do with the fact that most small roasters sell their coffee intending it to be used immediately, not the long haul so it's hard to get a coffee that has been expertly roasted and sitting on a shelf for a while.

The only experience that I have ever had with a good roaster and long past prime beans sitting in a sealed bag is some Intelligentsia House Blend that I picked up on a whim at Williams and Sonoma about 3 months post roast. I had never had Intelligentsia before and even tho it was old I thought what the heck? To be honest it was pretty good coffee, taste like a high quality 'breakfest' blend. It worked in my espresso machine fine produced good crema and tasted fine as well. Unforunately, I do not have anything to compare it to, i.e. fresh House Blend.

I could be all wrong about this, but I would like to see some people that are better tasters and more knowledgable really take a look into it and do without bias. How much is old coffee bad because it was bad to begin with, and how good is good coffee old and sealed in this way?

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REVIEWS & COMMENTS

  • MY FEELING

    Wakeknot | Fri, 02/10/2012 - 22:57

    is that it is not so bad when you first open it, but that for some reason it falls off incredibly quickly so after 2-3 days it is as if it had never been sealed. Perhaps frozen coffee does, too, but I usually freeze in small batches so it does not last more than 3 days post opening whereas an Illy can is too big for that.

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  • @SON TON

    intrepid510 | Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:40

    However what coffee did you use? I am talking about sealed coffee in nitrogen flushed bags that is designed to sit on the shelf for a while. I fully agree a bag of coffee sitting on the shelf of Whole Foods in a paper bag for the past month is not going to taste good most of the time.

  • @JBVIAU

    intrepid510 | Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:38

    Oh I completely agree about the pods the most limiting factor with them most of the time is the coffee that is ground not the age and for someone that is not looking to get that last 10% of the perfect coffee they are an excellent albeit expensive convenience.

  • @SAMUEL

    intrepid510 | Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:37

    I wouldnt want to drop 20 dollars on the cup of excellence coffee at Target that has been sitting there for 6 months, but I do like your rational that its not going to be undrinkable, I think so much conversation that people use makes it sound like an older coffee properly packaged might as well have been left in a paper bag for all those months.

  • @STEVE

    intrepid510 | Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:34

    thanks for the honest reply, I know when I was working at winery for a while we used Boron instead of the Nitrogen as it was a heavier noble gas that supposed kept the wine fresh longer, but certainly a high cost.

  • NO SIDE BY SIDE BUT...

    Son Ton | Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:54

    I have not done side by side comparison but I have experience with coffee that is past its prime before: that is it is not good and very hard to dial in in espresso machine.

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  • I'M INTERESTED, TOO

    jbviau | Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:35

    Yes, some good objective discussion of this issue would be welcome. I have a fair amount of experience tasting non-ESE coffee pods filled with specialty-grade coffee and then individually wrapped and nitrogen-flushed. They stay relatively fresh for months and drinkable for even longer. That's not to say there's no trade-off in terms of cup quality, but the difference is less significant than many would imagine. It makes me shake my head when I see people on CG reflexively write off pods by appealing to Babbie's Rule of Fifteens because it's clear they don't really know what they're talking about. For example, most high-end pods are packaged in an oxygen-free environment inside a machine immediately after the coffee is ground. So, they're a special case. Now, as for sealed containers of whole bean coffee, whatever Archer Farms is doing to preserve its COE offerings isn't cutting it for me personally; the last time I tried one it was 9 months post-roast, and there was zero aroma even right after the bag inside was opened.

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  • DEPENDS

    samuellaw178 | Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:24

    It depends on the individual I guess. In my experience, fresh coffee is the best because they have the optimum level of nuances that are very enjoyable. When they're left too long, or stale, these subtleties are beginning to fade and the coffee seems to lose its unique 'specialties'. But it won't be a bad coffee to the extend of undrinkable. However, for those who are constantly looking and judging a coffee by those subtleties, old coffee is definitely undrinkable. Unfortunately and fortunately for my wallet, I am not one of those, even though I do enjoy the nuances.

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  • TRY COFFEED

    Steve Rhinehart | Fri, 02/03/2012 - 19:57

    This has come up on Coffeed a few times before, and I recall reading a bit about how nitro-flushing can help improve stability for longer periods of time. However, as oxygen is not the only staling factor, older nitro-flushed coffees will lose flavor quite rapidly. Freezing actually has the benefit of slowing the rate of reaction of *any* chemical reaction taking place, not just oxidation, but obviously isn't a cheap way of shipping coffee anywhere. Still, the anomalous bag of two-month old coffee has also been found to still taste good, if stored properly. Suffice it to say, the Rule of Fifteens isn't exactly a universal truth.

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  • @AVASERFI

    intrepid510 | Fri, 02/03/2012 - 17:58

    I tried doing a search to see anything has really been said on home-barista, but nothing really there.

  • GREAT QUESTION

    avaserfi | Fri, 02/03/2012 - 17:07

    I've wondered similar things because I have noticed that nitrogen flushed, well sealed coffee tend to taste much better than their same or similar aged counterparts, but I think they taste differently than fresh. This could be a personal bias, of course. I wonder if any research has been done on the subject.

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